In this episode of Worldview Wavelengths, we dive into the often-intimidating world of networking with Dean Matt Donato and Peer Career Advisor Henrique Gabriel. Together, we reframe networking as a process of "relationship building" rather than a transactional chore and discuss strategies for how to start building connections right on campus.
Do you hate networking? You are probably not alone! Listen to this podcast episode with Dean Matt Donato and Peer Career Advisor Henrique Gabriel to learn more about how to strategically build relationships and expand your professional network as an international student at Brown.
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Host (Anastasia Dementieva) [00:07 - 01:32]: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Worldview Wavelengths! I'm your host, Anastasia Dementieva, and I work as the International Student Program Manager here at Brown. I'm so glad you're tuning in!
If this is your first time listening, Welcome. This show is all about sharing the stories and strategies that help international students navigate life in the U.S., from academics to finances.
Whether you’re here on a student visa or just want to learn more about our global community, you’re in the right place.
With summer break just around the corner, we’re diving into a topic I know is on the mind of many international students: networking! Whether you're heading into a summer internship, going back home, or taking summer classes, we’re going to talk about how to build the kind of relationships that can help move your career forward.
Joining me to unpack all of this are Dean Matt Donato, Executive Director, Center for Career Exploration and Associate Dean of the College, and Henrique Gabriel, an international senior from Portugal and the UK who has mastered the art of networking during his time here as a Peer Career Advisor. Let’s jump in!
Matt, Henrique, thank you so much for being with us today. We're so excited for this conversation. Before we jump into what summer looks like in terms of networking and all the things, I would like to get to know you a little bit better. So if you could both please introduce yourself and maybe share where you're from, what did you study or what are you studying, and where home is for you.
Henrique [01:32 - 01:49]: Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm Henrique Gabriel. I'm originally from Portugal, but I grew up in the UK, so that's hence the name and hence the accent. I'm a senior at Brown University, and I study applied math economics, and I do concentrate in international and public affairs on the policy track.
Matt [01:49 - 02:47]: And I am Matt Donato. I am the executive director of the Lizzie and Jonathan Tisch Center for Career Exploration. I'm also an associate dean in the college, so an academic advising dean. I've been at Brown for 11 years. I wanted to go to Brown as a student, but I didn't get int o Brown. So I went to Georgetown. And at Georgetown, I studied finance. But I don't do finance anymore. I did consulting and finance shortly after I graduated.
But I think my story is proof that you don't have to necessarily match up your concentration, your major, with what you do when you graduate. And there's going to be lots of twists and turns to your career. And so I love to tell students that and talk about my journey. And I'm originally from Massachusetts. I grew up on the North Shore of Massachusetts in a town called Peabody, which if you're from Massachusetts, you know that that's the way you pronounce it, not Peabody, Peabody. And yeah, I've been in Rhode Island since I've worked at Brown and love it here.
Host [02:47 - 03:00]: Thank you. So we mentioned today we're going to talk about networking, which is something that people usually have strong opinions about. You either love it or you hate it. Where do you two fall on that spectrum?
Matt [03:00 - 04:18 ]: I've grown to love networking. I don't think I was good at networking when I was a student, although... Looking back on my first job that I got after I graduated from Georgetown, I was interviewed by an alum of a consulting firm, a small boutique consulting firm in Washington, DC. And I think looking back, I realized that the interview was actually almost like a networking conversation. And part of the reason I was able to get that job was not because I was just qualified, but also because that alum really cared about supporting Georgetown students and hired me, partly because I was a Georgetown student and partly because I was qualified. And that sort of launched my career.
And every job that I've gotten since my first job was due to networking, due to connections. And so I don't think I was a naturally gifted networker. I actually prefer to refer to networking as relationship building, even though it's also networking. And I'm happy to dive into that a little bit more. But I've gotten good at networking over the years. And I think it's a really important skill for our students to get good at, especially coming into Brown as first year students throughout your time here. And then after Brown, networking is going to be really the key to unlock lots of opportunities in your career.
Host [04:18 - 04:25]: Amazing. Can't wait to hear about all the strategies and tools to learn how to become a good networker.
Henrique [04:25 - 05:16]: I have a love-hate relationship with networking, for sure. And as a sophomore going into finance, it was definitely hate. But now that I have the internship, we have a full offer on the table, networking becomes a lot more fun. And it's a lot more about conversations and hearing people's stories. And I think when you frame it like that, it's very hard to hate networking.
At the same time as Matt was talking just there I started to think about how much networking influenced my life before I even realized I was networking and the reason I came to Brown was because I was introduced to a friend in England who was doing his SATs at the time and he introduced me to the idea of American universities full stop and from there it's been a spiral so I think networking like you were saying is so crucial to every single part of your life facet of life future and should always be on the table and should always be something that you're aware of as a skill that you need I absolutely love it now. I do.
Host [05:16 - 05:41]: Amazing. So, okay, you can change and learn how to do that then. And I love that you both highlight something that is very clear as you progress in your career, that networking will look different in different phases of your life and in different stages of your career. So that's just a warning tell that if you hate networking right now, it doesn't mean that you should give up entirely. Let's get to the basics. What are some of the misconceptions that you think students have about networking?
Matt [05:41 - 07:40]: You know, I think some misconceptions are that networking is kind of gross and yucky. I actually don't know if that's a misconception. I think that's a legit feeling. Like, I think a lot of students feel like networking is just not pleasant, not something that they want to engage in. Maybe even it feels a little unethical. And I think there are power dynamics at play when you think about networking, especially at an Ivy League institution.
I would say we actually – so I co-teach a course called Exploring Career Options, UNIV 0456. So if there are any rising sophomores who want to take that course in the fall, definitely look forward in courses at Brown and think about shopping it in the fall. And we talk about networking in that course. We actually have sort of a full class to discuss networking. A lot of the things that students, you know, bring up as negative feelings around networking are the transactional feeling of it or feeling kind of gross or feeling like, why would someone actually want to talk to me? Feeling not confident about their abilities to make those connections.
And, you know, we also talk about some of the good things that can come from networking. You know, building relationships, finding a mentor, maybe even getting connection and access to an opportunity. And what we really kind of try to land on is, you know, networking is, whether you like it or not, necessary for the job search nowadays, especially thinking about internships and research experiences and full-time jobs when you graduate. Networking is necessary.
And if you don't feel great about it, We can help you in the Career Center think about how you position yourself, how you start off those conversations, how you maybe don't treat them as transactionally as you might feel like they're positioned.
I can tell you that one misconception is that why would an alum want to talk to me? Why would someone want to have a conversation with me? I'm just a student. I have nothing to offer. I can tell you in my conversations with many, many alumni over the years, they are thrilled to talk to Brown students.
Host [07:40 - 07:57]: Amazing. I love how you reframe a lot of these negative feelings that students may have about what networking is. And before jumping into your experience, Henrik, I want to still ask you, especially since you're teaching a class about it. What can students do to learn how to network?
Matt [07:57 - 09:14]: Well, you just got to do it. I mean, trying it out and learning in a pretty low stakes environment as an undergraduate student is actually the best way. I would say start having those conversations. I know it can be difficult. I tend to be externally… I present as an extrovert. I'm actually a pretty introverted person. And sometimes it's hard for me to like want to pick up the phone or get on a Zoom call and be like, oh, let me have this networking conversation.
You kind of have to just do it and try it out and maybe have some conversations that are a little bit awkward sometimes, a little bit like you maybe fall flat on your face in those conversations a bit, you maybe make some mistakes.
And I think as Henrique would probably tell you, the more you do it, the better you get at it. And I think, you know, you learn how you want to talk about yourself. You learn how to tell stories about yourself. You learn how to listen. You learn how to ask really probing questions and not just generic questions. And the more you do it, the more you're going to feel comfortable with it.
And if you're having trouble getting started, come to the career center. Meet with a Peer Career Advisor like Henrique, and they can sort of help talk to you about how to get started and how to present yourself in a networking context. Meet with a career counselor. Meet one of the Pathways Deans. Take our class. Like there's lots of ways to do it.
Host [09:14 - 09:24]: Amazing. And Henrique, I'll come to you finally with your experience as a Peer Career Advisor. How has being in the role that you are now changed your view of networking?
Henrique [09:24 - 11:23]: Yeah, absolutely. Completely transformed it. I entered as a freshman with no idea what I wanted to do. Kind of, I'm part of the Brown men's rugby team and started speaking to some of the seniors there. And they introduced me to the world of finance and consulting. And then the first thing they said to me was, you've got to go and start networking.
And from about sophomore fall in September to about sophomore spring in March, all I did was network. My calendar was pretty much classes, practice, networks, every single day, Monday to Friday. It was really, really intense.
But what being a PCA taught me was have to organize your discussions you have to remember the key things about individuals when you're sending out an email don't just send the same copy and paste template take two minutes go to their LinkedIn go find an experience that you're actually interested in not something that sounds good.
The best conversations I had wasn't with people talking about their past job experiences, it was scrolling all the way down on their LinkedIn page finding a really niche skill that they had purposely put on there and wanted people to speak to them about and then getting a conversation from there. And then it was an absolute spiral effect. And I used to call it rolling snowballs.
We'd have one conversation with somebody and then eventually that would just spiral and spiral into a bigger snowball and they'd start bringing other people on board. And I went from speaking to a Brown-Lax alumni to ending up speaking to the CEO of BNY Mellon in about three conversations. And that was... That really opens my eyes to the power of networking and how far you can go up the branch as long as you're just doing it in a coordinated, organized and purposeful way.
And I feel like a lot of the students that come into the Career Centre and want to have these conversations with us, they don't know where to start. And obviously we have the 70-20-10 rule, which is 70% networking, 20% applications and 10% cold emails. And a lot of them were just doing the 10% called emails and the 70% networking. And, as Matt was saying, that networking has to be meaningful conversations.
Matt [11:23 - 12:36]: Wait, did you call it the snowball method? I hadn't heard that before. I want to point out, you know, there are some ways. I love your stories about talking to upperclassmen, talking to seniors on the rugby team or seniors you're in class with. If you're a student that's nervous about networking, start on campus.
Like you don't have to start reaching out to alumni in BrownConnect+ or in LinkedIn. You can start on campus, like start reaching out to some students. And you could even use LinkedIn or maybe not BrownConnect+ for this, but LinkedIn's for sure. to see students who've had internships that you might be interested in, and then go talk to those students. Go practice your networking on campus. I know it might feel a little weird, but you can still reach out to students.
Faculty are great people to network with. I can't tell you how many times in both an academic advising context and in a career advising context I tell students, talking to faculty, having relationships with your faculty is a critical part of your Brown experience. And just go to faculty office hours. Even if it's a faculty member you're not in class with, go to their office hours. Getting that practice here can make you feel more comfortable when you're going out and reaching out to folks in BrownConnect+ or LinkedIn.
Host [12:36 - 13:15]: That's great. And I love that you both pointed out how common interest can kind of be this connector and glue that people just light up when they talk about things that they find interesting. And whether it is on LinkedIn, whether it is research that people are doing, if something sparks curiosity inside of you and the other person is doing that, they will feel the same way. And that's really, again, that rolling snowball effect, which we will definitely make it a term now. It's going to be on all the websites.
As we head into the summer, because it sounded like, Henrique, you were talking about a very structured approach. How can students take advantage of the summertime to focus on that if that's their goal?
Matt [13:15 - 16:31]: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, whether you have a summer job, an internship, a research experience, or if you're just taking the summer off, and I know many students choose to take the summer off or maybe they take a class over the summer and they don't have a job, that's okay. But if you think around those things that you're doing, your job, your class, your relaxing time, if you have some time to build in structured networking, I would highly recommend doing that, whether that's local and you want to try to meet with alumni that are alumni or sometimes parents, family members that are in your area. Or if you want to network with folks that are in different places and do it remotely by Zoom or by phone, build in some time every week to do it.
Henrique mentioned the 70-20-10 rule. This is a rule that we talk with students about when in the career center, when we're talking about the job search and how you actually find opportunities, the way that you source most of your opportunities, especially internship opportunities. In some cases, 60 to 70 percent of internships are never posted anywhere on like Handshake or LinkedIn or Indeed or another third party job site. But they're available and they're out there. And the only way you're going to find out about those things is talking to folks.
And so building in time, structured time to say, OK, this week I'm going to reach out. My first week I'm going to reach out to five people, one person, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And then next week I'm going to try 10 people. two people each day and then the next week maybe i go up to 15 and you know you don't have to continue to grow but however much is manageable for you and however many responses you can actually follow up with is probably you know once you start getting to your limit there that's probably a good number.
Not everybody is going to get back to you. So if you'd say, OK, I'm going to reach out to five people the first week of June, or let's say you reach out to 10 people. If you get two responses, that's actually really good. That's a great. That's a good response.
But you can't really get upset and not feel bad about yourself if you don't get a response. If you send 10 emails and you get zero responses, you should just send 10 emails the next week. And don't get down. It's not about you. Sometimes people are busy. Just keep doing it. I can't stress enough how much consistency and keeping at it is a big part of the networking process and not getting frustrated when you don't get a response.
If there's someone that you really, really want to talk to who isn't responding, send a pleasant follow-up a week later or 10 days later and say, “Hey, you know, just wanted to see if you saw my email. I'd still really love to have a conversation.” Being pleasantly aggressive, as I call it, is really, really helpful in networking.
And almost every alum I've talked to is like, oh yeah, I really appreciate it when students follow up with me because I just lost track of their email or I just forgot to respond. And getting that reminder was like, oh, yeah, I definitely want to talk to the student. So never, never hesitate to do that.
But I'd say like over the summer, take advantage of the time you have when you're not necessarily taking four classes and you're not doing four other activities and you have other social activities going on. Use that time wisely to build in some structured networking. And then that will also help you keep that going, as Henrique did when he got back in the semester. And he had sort of regular calls and outreach.
Host [16:31 - 16:42]: Great. And I do really like this element of resilience that you both bring in. Not hearing back is so normal and so part of the whole process that I hear from students all the time, like, oh, I sent a couple of emails and nobody replied.
Matt [16:42 - 16:55]: Right. Like, how many did you say you sent on a regular basis? 20 a week. Wow. So that's a lot. I don't know if a beginner networker should start with 20, but whatever you feel is manageable is probably a good number.
Henrique [16:55 - 18:41]: No, for sure. And I think it definitely matters where you are in your career search. So for the freshmen during your summer, don't pigeonhole yourself, use those conversations to understand what industries are, what positions actually mean. If you're going to finance, figure out what's an analyst, this is an associate… you won't know.
If you're trying to go into nonprofits, figure out what each one does. Don't look at it as like a “I want a job from this call”. Figure out how this is me learning about the industry, me learning about my career path.
Then in sophomore year, especially if you've got these early recruiting timelines, that's when you kind of have to put the pedal to the metal a little bit, accelerate it, get your structure, make sure you're speaking to people who are in those positions that you really want to be reaching out to: associates, higher VPs, people that can put your name forward.
And then the moment you're a junior, and if you're looking at jobs there, exact same policy, like look for those people, really focus on them, have those conversations that you're still learning from, and then I guarantee you that something's going to come from it, no matter what.
I had probably like three internships offered to me from different positions, all because of that constant, constant pace and management of not only who you're speaking to, but what your conversations meant, how long they were, when they follow up.
I had a spreadsheet, which was probably about 20 columns wide, and it would be name, email, interests, contact numbers, blah, blah, blah. But then right at the end, you'd have a ticker, which would be when was the last time you sent an email to them, when's your follow-up and when are you getting a notification to actually follow up with them.
And so it really is just keeping going, keeping going. It's definitely a marathon, not sprint.
Matt [18:41 - 19:35]: Yeah. I love how you talked about the difference in the type of networking you do, depending on where you are and sort of your process of thinking about career. At the front end, if you're a first year, second year student, or even a third, fourth year student who doesn't know what they want to do yet, which is normal, that's great. Then have some interesting conversations. Don't approach it like, oh, I'm calling this person or Zooming with them for a job.
Just be curious, like have some curiosity, as you mentioned, like have that common interest. Maybe you love movies and you never thought about working as a screenwriter, but you're going to do a networking call with one of our alums who's a screenwriter in L.A. and that just might be an interesting conversation that could get your gears going and that might get you sort of thinking about, oh, how might I take the things I'm interested in at Brown and the things I'm good at and turn those into a job or an internship or a career or something like that.
Henrique [19:35 - 20:14]: And I have to say, I think those are the conversations that don't annoy me, almost make me upset the most being a PCA, are students who come in and say, I'm a freshman. I love fashion. I absolutely adore fashion. It's my passion. But I'm going into finance and consulting.
And then I look at them and I'm like, why are we doing finance and consulting? And they're like, well, my friends are here. Everyone's doing it. It seems like the right thing to do. It's going to make me money. And I have to tell them, slow down. It's okay. Whatever you do, whatever you love, you can still make money. That shouldn't be where you're going or where you're striving for. Have you spoken to somebody in fashion? And 99% of those cases are always no. Well, go do that first.
Matt [20:14 - 20:15]: Yeah, I agree.
Host [20:15 - 21:07]: Yeah, and I think there's a whole conversation to be had about industry versus job and roles, right? Because you could be very much into fashion. Guess what? Jobs and fashion still need accountants. They still need salespeople. They still need all of the more traditional jobs.
Like I was talking to a student recently who loved theater and he was majoring in business and he is setting up productions for theater in New York. So he was able to combine those two interests and he's an international student. So obviously like the STEM was part of the thought process there as well, but he ended up working in the industry he wanted to work on the immigration path that makes most sense for him.
So, there are plenty of opportunities out there. So, I'm so glad that you both bring that point. And speaking of international students, how do you think your international background affect the way that they approach networking?
Henrique [21:07 - 22:12]: Yeah, absolutely. In Europe, networking is not a thing. We do not network and we don't have alumni networks and we don't even have alumni relations, really. So networking was a complete blank slate for me coming in. But it's actually a very useful tool for international students because any international student who's working now in America also had to go through the same process and still had to learn the same things that you did about networking.
BrownConnect+ has amazing features where you can filter out alumni, even if they're international and target international relations as well. And then that explodes a conversation as well because you can talk about your own personal experiences from home and they're really interested in it and why you've come to Brown, and suddenly that story highlights you a lot more than any of your professional experience.
And the alumni themselves are more interested in the fact of, oh, why did you come to Brown? What's it like being a Portuguese student at Brown? What difference does that make to your life? And those conversations for me were always more fun and more lighthearted and more energetic and really energized the network search than anything else. Yeah.
Matt [22:12 - 23:10]: And I think you bring up a great point about sort of networking as an international student comes with a lot of different cultural contexts. Right. I do agree with Henrique. Even if you're an international student, getting good at that type of, you know, Western networking is important, especially if you want to stay in the U.S. or work in the West and think about, you know, how you show up and how you find opportunities.
I think it's going to be really important to get good at networking and the way that it happens here in the U.S. And I think it's also important to acknowledge that that might not work if you want to go back to your home country.
But still, being able to get information, being able to build your knowledge through conversations, being able to understand what an employment landscape looks like, what opportunities look like. Even if someone isn't going to open a door for you in another country, they're going to give you useful information, hopefully, that might help you as you go forward with your search.
Host [23:09 - 23:10]: Great.
Henrique [23:10 - 23:40]: And I think on top of that, if any international student is listening, especially under the light of the current administration, being an international student is powerful and helpful and useful and a good thing. And you shouldn't look at yourself as less or as if you have less opportunities just because you're an international student.
Yes, there may be a couple more hurdles. There may be a couple of visa issues, but you can still cross over that finish line. So be confident, be willing to put in the work, put in the effort and put your best foot forward, because trust me, it will come down the line.
Matt [23:40 - 25:20]: And especially in the US, this is for international and domestic students. You know, there's a thing going on in a lot of recruiting spaces. This is particularly acute in finance and consulting and maybe even technology, but it's happening everywhere. There's been an explosion in applications to organizations because of artificial intelligence. Students use AI, and I have no problem with students using AI to build resumes and cover letters.
I obviously would like students to personalize things as much as possible and not just have a AI bot, like, you know, representing who you are. But there's been an explosion in applications. And now many employers are using AI tools to sort through that explosion of applications. And many employers are finding that the outcomes aren't necessarily better from having an AI search agent review AI submitted resumes and coming up with some recommendations.
So many employers actually want warm referrals. They want their employees to have talked to people who might be in the application pool who they might recommend to go into an interview round. This is actually true in finance. I actually heard from a bank during our spring break trek to New York that if you've applied and they don't know you yet, you haven't had a conversation with somebody, maybe a Brown alum at the firm, you will not get an interview.
Certainly finance, consulting, tech, it's important, but it's also important in arts, in nonprofit, in government. It's just really, really almost imperative that students have that process, get good at that process of making connections and having conversations.
Host [25:20 - 25:31]: I want to take a couple of steps back because we both mentioned BrownConnect. What is BrownConnect, for somebody who has never opened it?
Matt [25:31 - 28:30]: So BrownConnect+ is sort of our global alumni connection platform between students and alumni, and alumni with each other. It also includes faculty, it includes some families and parents who have signed up for the platform. So there's literally tens of thousands of people in the Brown network who you can contact immediately through BrownConnect+.
And there's a few different ways students can use BrownConnect+. They can go directly into the people directory where they can do searches and filter the universe of Brown alumni into regions or industries, or they can search for people at a particular company. There's lots of ways to slice and dice the information in BrownConnect+.
You could also go in as a student or an alum and join a community. And if you're a student who's thinking about internships in Chicago, you might want to join the Brown Club of Chicago. You can sign up for that community and then you can actually be connected to folks who are in Chicago who might work at places that you're interested in.
Or if you know you're going to be there over the summer, join that club because then you might be able to go to some club events and do some in-person networking with alumni. We have dozens of alumni clubs all over the world!
And then if you want maybe a more intense experience or even a longer term experience, we have a mentoring program through BrownConnect+, where you can actually sign up to engage in mentoring for up to a full academic year with an alum who will do regular calls with you, get to know you a little bit, help you through maybe some questions or some decision making that you have.
Mentoring can be a great way as you're thinking about like “I don't really know what I want to do. How do I figure this out? Maybe I'll find a mentor.” Students can sign up to be mentored in BrownConnect+.
And then lastly, if you're thinking about internships, there are some internships in BrownConnect+ too that you're not going to necessarily find in other places. So if you go to the Bruno Opportunities section in BrownConnect+, there are internships that Brown alumni and family members post that are either reserved specifically for Brown students or they're preferencing Brown students in the application process. And that might help you also connect with an alum directly, and you might increase your chances of getting an opportunity.
So highly recommend… I mean, that's sort of an overall summary of the BrownConnect+ platform. I could go into much more detail, but I would just recommend checking it out. Update your profile if you're a student, and then start making some connections.
I also recommend using BrownConnect+ and LinkedIn together side by side and open browser tabs, and I have a little thing that I show students on how to do that. But it can be a really powerful way to cross-reference information that might be in BrownConnect+ that isn't in LinkedIn, but information that could be in LinkedIn that isn't in BrownConnect+. So having those two things together can be a really good way to find people that you're really interested in having a conversation with.
Host [28:30 - 28:42]: That's an excellent overview. And I'll make sure to include all the links to the description of the episode, as well as how to schedule an appointment to meet with a career advisor. And how does PCA work over the summer?
Henrique [18:42 - 28:44]: So us PCAs, we're always busy.
Martt [28:44 - 28: 45]: You don't take the summer off!
Henrique [28:45 - 50]: We don’t take the summer off, we don't take Christmas off. We have online hours.
Matt [28:50 - 28:53]: We don't work you that hard!
Henrique [28:53 - 29:47]: We're very happy to do it! So you can reach out to the PCA email address at any point during the summer holidays. You will be matched with the PCA. And then from there on, we're basically your one-on-one guide. Anything that you send, we will respond pretty much as soon as we can. Reminder that we are also students on holiday, so don't insist that we respond in like two hours, but we will get a response there.
And then from there, we can just guide you through anything that you need in terms of networking, applications. If there's a job deadline that's coming up in a week or so, we will be there for you and make sure that your resume is being looked after. Even if there's a networking conversation, for example, that you're really nervous about, we can have mock conversations with you, make sure that you're pointing out all of the best things about your story. Yeah, we really are a resource that's here to help 24-7 across the entire school year. And obviously our open hours are always open, as the name suggests throughout the week.
Matt [29:47 - 30:39]: The only day we don't do open hours is Saturday. Mostly, they're in person. There's a couple days when the open hours are virtual so you can just log into zoom and attend open hours. And then the other thing that you can do is just walk into the center. Our peer career advisors actually staff our reception desk in the center. So if you just have a quick question, even if it's not open hours, you're going to probably talk to a PCA at the front desk and they can maybe help you get oriented or help you find the thing that you need access to.
So we try to make the barrier to entry really, really low for students. And the peer advisors are, I mean, you hear Henrique, he's giving great advice, you know, in this conversation. Like, I'm not saying there's like 29 other Henrique's, but like there are other peer advisors with other strengths and then things that they're really good at. And you're going to get good advice talking with folks like Henrique and our other peer advisors.
Henrique [30:39 - 31:05]: And on top of that, just because our conversation might end either at the Career Centre or online doesn't mean that we end as a resource. Like I still have students who send me resumes months after we've had our initial conversation and I will look over it, revise it, make sure that it's all good. So never, never be afraid to reach out to us. Never be afraid to use us as a tool. We're very, very happy and we love the job that we do. There isn't a single PCA, not a single PCA complains about their job whatsoever.
Matt [31:05 - 31:06]: Yeah, you guys are pretty happy.
Henrique [31:06 - 31:08]: Yeah, very happy. Very, very happy.
Host [31:08 - 31:26]: That's a very good recruitment strategy. I'm just saying, I might apply to become a PCA! So, just to wrap up our conversation, we said how starting sometimes can be the hardest. What would you say is a final piece of advice to a student who wants to start the summer? What one action should they take this week?
Matt [31:26 - 33:07]: So I'm going to give you, I've been holding this in reserve. This is like my best practices for how you actually send an email to an alum. or anybody actually, it doesn't have to be an alum, anyone you're networking with, please just say, here's who I am. Hi, I'm so-and-so. I'm Henrique. I'm a class of 2026 graduate from Brown, concentrating in this, here's how I found your information. I'm interested in talking to you about A, B and C or A and B or just A. Like, have a specific thing. Maybe it's that shared curiosity. Maybe it's “I had a question about, you know, what the internship landscape is going to look like in two years in consulting and wanted to sort of get your expertise on how I should think about preparing for that interview process.”
Whatever your question is, have a specific question. And then give a really specific follow-up. And by that, I mean say: “I'd love to have a short 30-minute phone conversation with you. I'm available next Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday after 3 p.m. but before 8 p.m.” And even put your cell number if you're comfortable sharing that, or you could put a Zoom link if you're comfortable with sharing your Zoom link.
But give them something specific as opposed to just saying, could we schedule a time to talk? You're going to get way more people responding to you. It doesn't have to take 20, 40, 50 minutes to write. You can write that email and you can have a template that you can just sort of cut and paste. maybe with different questions and different sort of information at the front end, but like you can use that over and over and over again, that format, and that will elicit many, many more responses.
Host [33:07 - 33:08]: Thank you, that's great advice.
Henrique [33:08 - 34:06]: Yeah, my advice, if you're a student who's just starting out, first of all, open your laptop, go to the Career Centre at Brown and look at the resources and then come into PCA Hours, for sure. We will guide you through all of it. It will take a five-minute conversation and then you'll be set to go for it. If you're a student who's already trying to be networking and you're struggling, the best advice I received that completely changed my networking experience, I was told to go introduce myself to three random strangers. That's it.
And you will learn so quickly how to phrase your story, how to phrase your introduction and how that sets up the conversation from those three introductions that it will completely transform every single call you get on going forward. You'll end up having your own line. It's something that really like snaps out at the person and make sure that they remember you mine was the fact that I was Portuguese and English, and I had the name and the accent, and that was a very easy way to ease into the conversation ironically.
Host [34:06 - 34:09]: You used it at the beginning!
Henrique [34:09 - 34:32]: Exactly! And those things really only come from the experience of actually just having to put yourself in the limelight and really just introduce yourself. Something, a skill, that isn't taught and isn't very well practiced anymore unfortunately. And that and that's can be very hard for some introverted students and again come to the Career Center we'll help you, we'll be there for you across the entire way and we'll practice that with you. But those would be my advices.
Host [34:32 - 34:38]: Amazing! Great resources all around, so take advantage of them. Thank you so much for joining us!
Matt [34:38]: Thank you, we had a great time!
Henrique [34:39]: Thank you, so much fun.
Host [34:40 - 34:42]: And thank you all for listening. See you next time!