In this episode, we explore the complex, but often rewarding process of leavetaking for international students. Taking a period of non-enrollment can serve so many different purposes—from resting and recalibrating, to exploring new interests or tending to family. But as an international student, stepping away from campus comes with unique emotional and logistical challenges. Joined by Janet Isserlis, Assistant Director at the Curricular Resource Center, and Ah-Young Moon, an international student in her final year at Brown who took a leave during her own sophomore year, we unpack the cultural stigma, the fear of "falling behind," and the practical steps to taking a leave of absence.
Have you ever felt like you needed to press pause on your degree, but were too worried about falling behind or losing your visa status to actually do it?
Leavetaking, which is a period of non-enrollment, can serve many purposes: whether you need rest, time to recalibrate, or space for personal exploration. But for F-1 visa-holding students, stepping away from campus comes with unique logistical and emotional hurdles.
In this episode of Worldview Wavelengths, we sit down with Janet Isserlis, Assistant Director at the Curricular Resource Center (CRC), and Ah-Young Moon, an international senior who navigated taking a leave during her own sophomore year. Together, they demystify the process, share lived experiences, and offer practical advice for taking control of your own academic timeline.
In this episode, we discuss:
Resources Mentioned:
Music provided by Blue Dot Sessions, Greylock.
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Host (Anastasia Dementieva) [00:07,229 - 01:53,407]: Hello, and welcome back to Worldview Wavelengths, the podcast by the International Student Advising Team in the college here at Brown University.
I'm your host, Anastasia Dementieva, International Student Program Manager, and I'm so glad you're tuning in. If you're new to the show, this podcast is designed to highlight resources, strategies and stories to support international students as they navigate academics and finances in the U.S. While our primary audience is F1 visa holding undergraduate students, anyone curious about our international community is welcome to tune in.
Today, we're tackling a topic that often comes with a lot of questions and sometimes some stigma: leavetaking. Taking a period of non-enrollment can serve so many different purposes, from resting and recalibrating to exploring new interests or tending to family responsibilities. As an international student, the idea of pressing pause on your degree can feel incredibly daunting. So while leave-taking can be a deeply meaningful experience, it can also be emotionally and logistically complex.
To help us unpack what taking a leave really looks like, I'm thrilled to be joined by two amazing guests, Janet Isserlis, Assistant Director of the Curricular Resource Center who oversees the Lead Taking Peer Advising Program, and Ah Young Moon, an international student in her final year who took a leave during her sophomore year. Let's dive in.
Janet, Ah-Young, thank you for being here today with us. It's such a pleasure to talk to you. Before we jump into the conversation, I wanted to know a little bit more about yourself. So maybe if you could introduce yourselves, just share your name. What are you studying or what did you study? And one thing that's keeping you passionate right now. And Ah-Young, I'll start with you.
Ah-Young Moon [01:53,927 - 02:28,682]: Yes hello, thank you for having us. My name is Ah-Young Moon. I took a leave back in my sophomore year so I'm a point fiver, which makes me a senior this year. I study computational neuroscience at Brown and something that I'm passionate about recently is: I started a jewellery brand as a little side hobby and I really enjoyed designing for it and I hand-make my little pieces. And apart from that, yeah, I think that's all. Janet?
Janet Isserlis [02:29,182 - 03:01,830]: Thank you. My name is Janet Isserlis. I'm the assistant director at the CRC. When I was in school, I studied painting and theater and did a master's in teaching at RISD, taught children for a while, then started teaching ESL and literacy to adults, did art, an MA here at Brown in 1991. And I'm passionate about teaching and learning and listening and thinking about ways to change the world for the better, because I think that's work that needs doing.
Host [03:02,536 - 03:10,303]: I love to hear that. And part of what you do is oversee the leave-taking program at Brown. And let's start with the basics. What is leave-taking?
Janet [03:10,563 - 03:35,604]: Well, the official definition is a leave is a period of non-enrollment at Brown. So it's time that you take away, usually it can be anything from a semester to an academic year, to a year and a half. It really varies with students, but it's a time that you are not enrolled in classes. Unless there are unusual circumstances, you're still a Brown student, but you do not take classes. You take time away.
Host [03:36,144 - 03:40,587]: And could you share a little bit about what are some of the reasons that people could take a leave?
Janet [03:40,767 - 04:15,740]: Absolutely. People take a leave for health and mental health reasons, for hitting pause. Maybe there are other things that are interesting them. It's not a negative thing. It's very much a positive thing, having an interest in travel without study abroad necessarily, but I'd like to volunteer on a farm in France, or I'd like to be in my hometown and do some volunteer work. There are any number of reasons that just enable a student to still be enrolled, to be a Brown student without being actively enrolled at that time.
Host [04:16,290 - 04:22,174]: And you mentioned a few, but what are some other examples of what you've seen students do while they were on leave?
Janet [04:23,094 - 05:08,136]: They have – I talked to somebody recently who was an EMT, somebody who was a long-term substitute teacher in a middle school. People have said – and they say this in almost – embarrassed way. "I did nothing," but that nothing is not nothing. It's time not engaged in structured activity or in a volunteer or even a paid activity so much as taking time to reflect, taking time to just be in the world. So there's a whole range of things that people do and as I said, volunteering, job jobs, service industry. It really depends on the student and their needs, strengths, and interests at the time.
Host [05:08,968 - 05:21,934]: And I really like that you highlighted that there's many motivations that bring students to taking a leave of absence. And Ah-Young, you have taken a leave during your sophomore year. Could you share a little bit about the motivations that brought you to take a leave?
Ah-Young [05:22,214 - 07:14,330]: Yes. So as Janet mentioned, I'm actually one of those students who did "nothing" during my leave. Well, it wasn't nothing. It was very much a lot of things that I did, and taking a leave was in my opinion one of the best decisions I've ever made for myself. Now looking back, I remember being so scared because of all the stigma around it and people having ideas about "Oh wow you're taking a break, why would you do that?"
In my case, I would like to say that there were many different reasons why I took a leave and one of it definitely being that I wanted to take some time to really just reflect on the position that I was in life. Something that also I realized after talking to a lot of students at Brown is people do get burnout and they don't realize it until it hits them really hard. And for me, I think that was the case as well, where I really enjoy working hard and I really liked everything that I do.
But it was a semester before declaring my concentration. And at this point, I had too many dreams and too many goals. And I needed some time to kind of clean up my thoughts. I think this is more of a personal value, but I always want to do something that I am passionate about. I never want to just follow a path because it's something that looks like it's correct.
And I think that's why I was confident in making the decision of "Okay, I'm gonna take some time off. I'm gonna really reflect on where I am. I'm gonna make sure that whatever I do from now on is something that I'm truly passionate about." And yes, it definitely did help me.
Host [07:15,263 - 07:35,933]: I love that you bring up some very important points about stigma and burnout and things that might be affecting international students, domestic students, international students maybe in a different way. And we'll definitely unpack that a little bit more. But I'm just curious to know, you said you did nothing. And I don't really believe that. What did you do during your time away?
Ah-Young [07:36,073 - 11:28,283]: It was not nothing. I think it was a lot of somethings. I did everything that I could so that I did not regret this period in my life. And this was nothing specifically academic or like doing an internship. I wanted to do so many other things. That was nothing to do on paper, but it was all for myself.
So when I took a leave, I went home and I basically went back into all my hobbies. I took on new skills and I spent time to make sure that I did not regret this period of my life when I was away from Brown. I started making music. I learned how to video produce. I learned how to edit photos. I got my drone certificate. That's when I also started designing, so I learned how to do digital art, 3D framework. And I also learned how to 3D print, laser cut.
Also, back home in South Africa, I went back into my old community service, because I really missed it a lot my first two years at Brown. So it felt really, really good to be able to go back into the communities. Going back into the work I used to do, taking new hobbies, grounded me, I would like to say.
And then, of course, near the end of my leave I did sign up for a class that I really, really wanted to take in Korea. It was a summer course where the main focus of the class was AI robotics. Throughout this period I did have a vague idea that I wanted to pursue computational neuroscience. But also, back to my values and my personality, I wanted to be sure that that's something I am dedicated to, and I really, really want to do it.
So I took the summer course, June, July, and I went to Korea alone. I remember reading the curriculum and being like, "I really do want to learn this." Emailed the school, did my application, got in right away. And went to Korea, took the course, and surprisingly, unexpectedly, I really, really enjoyed it. I loved learning about AI, robotics. It connected the two fields that I liked the most, computer science and neuroscience. And I definitely think that freedom of being able to explore gave me the confidence that, yes, this is what I want to do.
Thankfully, throughout my leave, I stayed in touch with our education deans, Dr. Monica Linden, Dr. David Sheinberg, as well as Dr. Jennifer Blackwell. They were so, so supportive in helping me prepare my return from leave and helping me also plan out the coursework of now being able to continue studying computational neuroscience. After that all happened, I came to Brown and fortunately became the first person at Brown to officially declare my concentration in computational neuroscience. I think that's another reason why I have so many opinions about leave-taking because timing, opportunities, just the way that life works out, it's not set.
Host [11:29,004 - 11:49,336]: That's really incredible. And I love that you brought so many interests on the table. I mean, computational neuroscience, robotics, 3D printing, jewelry making. It's really incredible. Would you say the leave of absence changed the trajectory both of your personal story and your academic journey as well?
Ah-Young [11:50,136 - 13:07,626]: Yes, especially being a Brown student. I do feel like we forget the fact that our bodies are trained to be anxious. Our bodies are trained to feel like if we're not doing something, then it feels like we're failing. There's constantly a need to do something. And I didn't know I had that until I took the leave.
The first two months was very difficult as I felt like I was falling behind. Everyone in my year was going ahead and I felt like, not a failure, but I felt really behind. After the first two months, I think something happened where my subconscious kind of calmed down and my fight or flight mode settled and was like, "Wait, I'm actually still alive."
I think that subconscious shift led to my whole perspective about my life, my career goals, just how I see my future, like it shifted. And that's when I was able to now really see outside of the box and tell myself to really follow what I want to do. Definitely, that's when I was more confident in not only my studies, but also being able to choose paths that are not conventional.
Host [13:08,246 - 13:14,748]: You already mentioned a little bit about you returning to Brown after your leave. Could you tell me a little bit more what that process looked like?
Ah-Young [13:15,048 - 14:23,532]: Yes. So I think I was very anxious because I wasn't sure. Yes, the document and the online information forms tell me that, yes, it'll be easy to come back. But is that really true? Like, what if I can't come back? What if there's an issue with my visas?
But thanks to the international office, Dean Pan and Kelsey, I remember staying in touch all the time. Surprisingly, what I feared the most, the documentation, the international status, I didn't have any issues with it. That's why when I do get students who ask about taking a leave, I do make sure to inform international students that we are not the same as someone who lives in America. It is a much more difficult process because we have to make sure that our visa status, we have to abide by the law. So it is a little different, but it's also definitely not stressful. As long as you make sure to reach out for help.
Host [14:23,885 - 14:36,256]: Well, I'm very glad to hear that that part worked out. And what about your social circle? Were you at all worried about how it might affect your social circle, your relationships and how did it work out when you came back?
Ah-Young [14:37,878 - 16:23,568]: I came back and of course I could have gone back to my normal social circles and stay in touch with everything else I had prior to leaving Brown. But after taking the leave and, as I mentioned, the shift of just the way I see life, my own values and the type of people I want to surround myself with, I came back to Brown and everything changed.
I met a lot of new people, new friends. I took classes with underclassmen because now I came back as an upperclassman. And also I declared a new concentration, which meant that I had a lot of requirements to take classes back to so-called freshman requirement courses and I was around a lot of younger underclassmen as well. That allowed me to meet new people.
If I were to compare my social circles and relationships before my leave and after, definitely after it uncomparably I made a lot of nice people. I think it's nothing to do with meeting good or bad people, it's more of after the leave I was more confident in who I was, and then being able to come back and search for things that align with who I am and surround myself with people who would support me and think in the way that I do now. That definitely has changed. So this is something I love advising: this doesn't mean that you shouldn't stay in touch with old friends, this was just my case, but definitely it's nothing to be scared about.
Host [16:24,460 - 16:59,707]: That's a really, really good answer. And I really do love hearing that it allowed you to give you this greater sense of confidence that then allowed you to perhaps develop stronger relationships because of being more grounded and knowing more what you were looking for in relationships as well. Janet, veering a little bit more towards your experience working with many international students and many students who are going through what could be a very delicate chapter of their education. What are some myths or misconceptions that you have seen students have about leave taking?
Janet [17:00,167 - 18:08,842]: I think people fear that it's a negative thing. And I hate in conversation using the word stigma because it reifies the fact that it's seen as a stigma. But we've talked a lot about reframing. And I'm not sure that gets to their misconceptions. But I think if we talk about all the positive things that can happen, if you take a moment to reflect, if you're addressing a health or a mental health issue, if you need to go back to be with your family... I think people are afraid. Ah-Young mentioned FOMO [Fear Of Missing Out]. I think there's that. There's also that "I'm going to fall behind" or "I won't have my friends."
And so acknowledging that and not dismissing it, sort of saying, "Yeah, these things are very real feelings. You don't need me to tell you that your feelings are real." But to say, "Let's look at it. Can we reframe this as a step that you're taking so that when you are back here, you're better able to engage fully, you're better able to be attentive to classes, to find the balance between classes and life beyond classes and clubs or whatever it is you want to do."
Host [18:09,783 - 18:20,585]: Thank you so much for that. And Ah-Young, we touched already a little bit about this, but how do you think your international background specifically affected you as you were going through the process?
Ah-Young [18:21,886 - 20:34,981]: Yes, so I definitely think that with being international and also what Janet just mentioned about the idea of what people think of as stigma, I think that's potentially why international students are so much less likely to go on leave. And also another reason why I was so passionate about wanting to be an advisor personally for the leave-taking students is I personally think it's a great experience. I think it shows how confident you are in being able to take a leave even if you are an international student and even if there are so many other documents and processes that are different to national students.
But definitely yes, that's why I was also very scared of taking a leave, because of firstly not having people around me who I could ask, as in like students. And also I think the idea of what would people think? Would they think that I took a leave because I'm weak? Like, why would you come all the way to Brown as an international student just to leave?
No, I'm not leaving. I love it here. There's a reason I came to Brown. I'm taking a leave so I make sure that the rest of the time I spend at Brown is to the full capacity so that I do not regret anything. There's so much time that we can spend at Brown. It's only four years. And I really, really want to make sure that the school that I love so much and I call home, I spend every single day doing the most that I can. And that's why I took a leave.
Therefore, I think whenever there are international students coming, I would say that it could be more difficult, but nothing logistically. It's more because of the idea, the thoughts that people have, the so-called stigma, and what other people would think about me. But if you actually don't care about that part, about other people's opinions... For me, I think it's nicer because it reminds me of how small and how big the world can be. Going back home, being able to come back. It always broadens my perspective. So, yes.
Host [20:36,142 - 21:02,535]: I love how you frame this. And you mentioned about the importance of not caring what other people think. Which is absolutely excellent. And I'm so happy for you that you are able to do that. But of course, some students, it's harder to do that. So for international students who worry about how to explain a leave to their family back home, do you have any practical advice on how to have that conversation?
Ah-Young [21:02,555 - 23:26,440]: Oh, yes. Mentioning, just continuing with the point of not caring about what other people think. I see that. But am I truly a professional in not being able to care what other people think? I don't think so. I try my best. And I think that is the case for everyone, especially regarding talking to your parents.
I realized something that is revolutionary to myself, I guess. The reason why it's so difficult to talk to your parents about taking a leave and being able to convince them is because me myself, and whoever wants to take a leave, I'm also not sure. Because I'm not sure if this is the right decision for me, being able to convince my parents or trying to confidently tell someone else that I want to take a leave is so difficult. If you have that full confidence in yourself that this is the right decision, I feel like convincing someone else and talking to them is much less difficult.
And also, I remember telling someone this advice, but you need to understand the reason why parents seem like they are kind of rejecting the idea of leave is because they are also worried for you. Everything is out of love, I think, and being able to convince them also is letting them know that it will work out. They care about you a lot and that's why a lot of times the way people express love can come very differently.
And perhaps this is a—I don't know if this is even good advice—but something that I think is also kind of a good way to think about it is instead of being scared that it's not going to work out, why don't you prove that it did? Why don't you tell yourself that, yes, I was scared. My parents were scared. No one believed in me when I took the leave. Everyone thought I'm a failure. Okay, then why don't you use that thought and prove that it was the best decision you've ever made? I think that's just a way of perspective-taking. And I remember talking to this to a student and thankfully they took it the right way, because I didn't know if this is even healthy advice.
Host [23:27,301 - 23:39,427]: No, I think you really do raise some excellent points here. And one question that I did have for you is how does a student know when taking a leave is the right decision for them versus other types of support that are available at Brown?
Janet [23:40,407 - 24:56,787]: I wish I could say because it's three o'clock on a Thursday and that's how you know. They don't for sure. And so there's no certainty about anything. But again, I think part of the process and why we're so well resourced with different academic offices as well as peer advisors is for people to have a thought partner, somebody to sort of look at, "Well, what could happen if? What will this look like? What are the things people most fear?" And if this particular point is a make-or-break deal, then what does it mean if you're going to stay here and not take a leave? So it's a lot of balancing of priorities.
The other thing I want to say is that many, many students take more than one leave. And that's absolutely within the range. Most people don't necessarily graduate in four years. So it's really important to understand that. But across the board for every student, there are concerns, be it family, community, be it other obligations that we may or may not be aware of, but that they want to honor and need to honor, while also helping students see you can't honor that if you're not honoring yourself. You can't be something to someone until you look after yourself—that sort of thing about the oxygen mask.
Host [24:57,778 - 25:35,077]: I think, yeah, you raise such a good point about the importance of talking to other people as you're going through this process. And luckily at Brown, we do have so many resources available through the CRC, through peer advising. So really, if anyone is listening to this and they are even thinking, maybe this might be the right thing for me... Please get help. Please talk to someone because we are here to listen and to really help you going through this process. I want to move a little bit more to the logistics side of it. So for an international student who is considering to take a leave, what does the process look like?
Janet [25:36,258 - 26:27,092]: I would say that they really need to talk to your office. The deadlines are the same, but they really need to, in the same way I would say to a domestic student, what are the considerations? Is it financial aid? Is it the visa? Is it these things? Ah-Young said that those logistics are kind of basic. I would never, ever, ever just say to a student, "Sure, it's good, go," but look at your particular circumstances with the ISSS team, with Global Brown. I would absolutely go to those people. I wouldn't pretend to offer a definitive answer, but I would also really encourage you to do everything you can and look on the websites and get the information so that you can form the questions that you need to ask so that you're as fully prepared with information to make the decision one way or the other.
Host [26:27,548 - 26:35,916]: And we will absolutely make sure to include the link to that website in the description of this episode. You mentioned the deadline. What are the deadlines?
Janet [26:36,336 - 26:46,225]: If you want to request a leave for fall semester, the deadline is May 1st. And if you want to request a leave for the upcoming spring semester, you need to do that by December 1st.
Ah-Young [26:46,787 - 27:10,713]: But also there are cases where students have to leave right now. And that is not specifically leave-taking, but student support services. So if you go talk to a dean or you have certain more private meetings, there are exceptions where students actually can leave right away. It's just that would be a different system to leave-taking officially.
Host [27:10,913 - 27:18,694]: Right. So these are the deadlines to request to go on a leave, but then there's also deadlines to request to return from a leave, right?
Janet [27:19,515 - 27:57,441]: So if you're coming back from a leave and you want to come back in the fall, you need to let people know by April 1st. If you want to come back in spring, October 1st. And if you want to come for summer session, May 1st. If you want to participate in pre-registration, March 1st, October 1st, February 1st. And again, those deadlines are at crc.brown.edu. If you go to the coaching and mentoring tab and certainly in the college tab, I won't read the whole URL, but absolutely double check those things to make sure that you have the dates you need.
Ah-Young [27:58,198 - 28:37,612]: Yes, and on that point, deadlines are, as Janet mentioned, the same, but something that as international students we have to keep in mind is that the visa, making sure that you have the documentation to come back, those could be a requirement months before that. As in, for example, the deadline of wanting to return could be a specific date, but for international students, that visa that needs to be signed and made sure it's properly legally prepared to come back into America could be two, three, five months ahead. So you just have to make sure that you stay in touch with the international office because our case is very, very different.
Host [28:38,256 - 28:43,819]: And I remember seeing on one of the websites at Brown that there's also sort of checklist students can refer to.
Janet [28:43,839 - 28:55,606]: But I was just looking at, and if you go again to, it's called the Leave Taking and Return from Leave Checklists. And that's... you can, it's a Google Doc that lives on the website.
Host [28:55,826 - 29:10,637]: And again, we will make sure to include all the relevant links in the description of the episode. To wrap up our conversation, if you could both give one short piece of advice to someone who is considering to go on leave, what would it be?
Janet [29:11,177 - 29:53,498]: Talk to other leave takers. Talk to the people whose input matters to you. Examine your options, possible outcomes, consequences. Be aware of academic requirements, schedules, logistics. While we haven't emphasized it, it's great to be brave and be daring. It's not so great if in so doing you don't inadvertently harm yourself in some way in terms of credit. So just really be aware of all the possibilities. And ask for help. Ask for a thought partner to help you think through the possibilities. Be brave in the best ways that make sense for you. But please, please, please ask, ask, ask. People at Brown are here to support you.
Ah-Young [29:54,285 - 31:03,467]: I think I always think about this question a lot, just because now as an upperclassman, I do have a lot of underclassmen coming to me and asking for advice. And I can see their anxiety and being scared, and it reminds me of when I was also an underclassman. And I think the advice that I have, whether it's leave-taking or just in general about navigating college is—this is so cliche—but there really is not a set time, a correct time for anyone's life, and you live the life that you create for yourself.
Being confident that you made the right decision for yourself, even if it could be difficult for you to feel that way at the start, but still being sure to stick to what you believe in and making sure that you make the most out of it. I think that is what I would love to tell everyone.
Host [31:03,487 - 31:08,250]: Ah-Young, Janet, thank you so much for talking to us today. Thank you.
Ah-Young [31:08,590 - 31:09,290]: Thank you.
Host [31:09,911 - 31:12,652]: And thank you all for listening. We'll see you next time.
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